The public sentiment is highly polarized regarding the Israel-Gaza conflict, with a substantial divide between strong pro-Israel sentiments and serious concerns for Palestinian civilians. Many commenters express unwavering support for Israel, justifying military actions against Hamas and emphasizing the need for closure regarding hostages. Conversely, a significant portion of the audience voices deep sympathy for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, criticizing Israeli actions and calling for a reconsideration of military strategies. Overall, the sentiment reflects a complex interplay of support for Israel coupled with a growing frustration over the humanitarian consequences of the conflict.

Israel

Hamas

International Community

@[bymoalem](https://www.instagram.com/bymoalem) on IG is a lawyer who tries to give constant updates and breakdowns of all the different news outlets he keeps up with (a mix of Israeli, Arab, U.S., &amp; EU outlets for the most part). The news is presented differently in every country and shapes everyone’s worldviews especially on this conflict.

Every breakdown of his has the original source mentioned so you can go further in depth if you’d like to. 

He gives a very quick summary of the overall news landscape from an Israeli perspective &amp; hosts AMAs often. I find him incredibly informative, well balanced, full of empathy for Palestinian civilians, and very open to discussing any issue in a civil manner.

ImaginaryBridge

Why look at news? Look what happened instead. Hamas massacred over thousand innocent civilians, took hostages. They went back to Gaza and Palestinians civilians including children celebrated this monstrous acts while Israel was mourning. 

When Israel retaliate the hamas used their own ppl as shields. 

Now look what is happening. The civilians of Palestine is asking world for help after they had celebrated the unspeakable acts or terrorism on innocent ppl.

Enough said.

Northstar-eye

all one-sided, propal fodder. and you really want more anti-israel hate material? this not enough?

CaregiverTime5713

Guardian is proving itself unreliable: [https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/middle-east-incredible-display-people-power](https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/middle-east-incredible-display-people-power), [https://honestreporting.com/journalist-covering-mideast-conflict-for-the-new-york-times-i-support-the-palestinian-struggle-against-occupation/](https://honestreporting.com/journalist-covering-mideast-conflict-for-the-new-york-times-i-support-the-palestinian-struggle-against-occupation/), Matthew Cassel [https://camera-uk.org/2010/10/19/the-guardians-matthew-cassel-feels-a-jads-pain/](https://camera-uk.org/2010/10/19/the-guardians-matthew-cassel-feels-a-jads-pain/)  was a guy with them who ran a documentary who was from E.I.

Al Jazeera is literally a Hamas propaganda outlet and collaborator: [https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/october-7-victims-sue-al-jazeera-claiming-they-support-hamas](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/october-7-victims-sue-al-jazeera-claiming-they-support-hamas),[https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/al-jazeera-program-about-the-october-7-2023-terrorist-attack-and-massacre/](https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/al-jazeera-program-about-the-october-7-2023-terrorist-attack-and-massacre/),

972 magazine is rubbish: [https://ngo-monitor.org/ngos/\_magazine/](https://ngo-monitor.org/ngos/_magazine/), [https://honestreporting.com/tag/972-magazine/](https://honestreporting.com/tag/972-magazine/), [https://ngo-monitor.org/sweeping-allegations-racism-rug-972-magazine/](https://ngo-monitor.org/sweeping-allegations-racism-rug-972-magazine/)

[https://www.rand.org/research/projects/truth-decay/fighting-disinformation/search/items/mediabias-ratings.html](https://www.rand.org/research/projects/truth-decay/fighting-disinformation/search/items/mediabias-ratings.html), Rand revealed that ha makom literally has had no external evaluations. It is a terrible and inaccurate source.

The rest seem legit.

AsaxenaSmallwood04

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib

Proud American; Gaza native; pro-Palestine, pro-Peace, anti-Hamas &amp; milit-occupation, Head of @rfpalestine ; Senior Fellow @AtlanticCouncil ; Term Member @CFR_org

https://x.com/afalkhatib
https://www.facebook.com/afalkhatib

cowbutt6

If you get information from a number of sources you get a clearer picture. If you just read Al Jazeera and Haaretz, though, you may not be getting the whole picture. It's also useful to see what news is being broadcast to the Muslim world. The YouTube channels MEMRI and Palwatch are indispensable for westerners imo.

Dr_G_E

Few twitter accounts:

[https://x.com/imshin](https://x.com/imshin)

[https://x.com/SpencerGuard](https://x.com/SpencerGuard)

[https://x.com/havivrettiggur](https://x.com/havivrettiggur)

triplevented

I know I am about to be obliterated by this community but here I go any way.

***HASAN PIKER***

the dude is well spoken, and if you listen with an open mind he will sit there and explain so, so, so much.

Ok-Replacement-2738

/u/PloppingSmock (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.

All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed [here](/r/DeltaLog/comments/1l9v7jh/deltas_awarded_in_cmv_the_only_likely_end_to_the/), in /r/DeltaLog.

Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.

^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)

DeltaBot

Since nobody seemed to read the actual post where OP said This is NOT a discussion of the morality and bothered trying to change their view, I'll chime in.

I don’t think Gaza’s total destruction is the only likely outcome—just the most extreme one. A more natural and historically consistent outcome is that, over time, the Palestinian population adapts. Romantic arguments about “you can’t kill an idea” make for great slogans, but history shows people abandon causes when the costs become generationally unsustainable.

Eventually—maybe after a couple more cycles of war and displacement—the dominant will likely shift from resistance to survival. That could mean accepting a much smaller, weaker, and more fragmented version of a state—far worse than what was on the table in 1948, 1967, Oslo, 2005, or 2008. Not because it's fair, but because it’s what’s left.

Obsidian1000

I'm a lot more optimistic than yourself. Here are few things to consider -   
1) At least currently, the rate of death/removal of land isn't compatible with "wiping out Gaza". That is not to say that there aren't a lot of dead Palestinians and that is not to say that any life of a single Palestinian person aren't valuable - just that for more than a year now there are more Palestinians born in Gaza than Palestinians that died, and this is when you include Hamas militants in the calculation.  Same goes for Palestinians that left Gaza. At the start of the war a meaningful amount left, but after that not so many.  
This is not to diminish the suffering or anything, just to say that for your end to be the "likely" end, we would have to see a significant increase in those parameters.   
  
2) Majority of Israelis have showed in polls consistent support for the end of the war - and this majority grows as time progresses. (I know, some people in the comments would want to bring the one outlier poll with the poor methodology about the 82%, this is not how statistics work). This is already seen in Israel reducing the number of reservists they enlist, because many of them simply don't want to come for a war they want to end. This makes the increase from (1) significantly less likely - there is no internal support for such a move. That being said - the current Israeli gov (which according to polls loses by a large margin to its opposition) still has about a year+ left in office.

3) Lastly, IDK how close you follow the news, but there are some signs that Hamas loses its power completely. Some of these signs include the PA saying worse and worse things about Hamas (for the first time they said that October 7 was horrible), there are armed militias (that Israel helped arm - something that isn't consistent with occupying Gaza btw) that openly go against Hamas, and the Gazan protests against Hamas continue. The weaker Hamas are, the less commanders they have remaining, the better the offers that Israel is likely to get. Currently, any offer that was put on the table had Hamas remaining in some capacity in Gaza. Once this is gone - ideally it's easier to push Hamas to relinquish power and give back the hostages. If this happens - it's really hard to justify the continuation of the war - both to the Israeli public (that its opinions matter) and to the US. 

4) Lastly, notice that there are reports in recent days about Trump saying to Netanyahu he wants to see an end the war soon. Seems like Trump went back from his riviera plan.

comeon456

Why would that end the conflict?

The West Bank would still be a source of contention, and enough former-Gazian Palestinians live overseas to cause trouble at some future point.

The only end to the conflict is a diplomatic one, where both sides make concessions and find agreement over common grounds. Unfortunately, the leadership on both sides is probably going to have to change before this becomes a possibility—but it's still the only real resolution; anything else is just a pause while one side or the other regroups.

Wheloc

A one state solution is possible. Everyone can live together under a free, fair, democratic country. 

Israel supported and tolerated the religious groups that became Hamas. Their goal was to allow the religious extremist groups to gain power to squash the secular Palestinian Liberation movement. 

This just ended with the fight for Palestinians in gaza being tied to religious extremism. Which was great PR for Israel. 

However, it's not true. These are real people, both in Gaza and in Israel, who just want to live their lives. They could easily live in harmony. 

Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived together in the area for centuries. The modern conflicts began after the rise of Zionism, and specifically the Balfour declaration, where the British promised the Palestinians a nation if they revolted against ottomon rule, and they also promised the same area to Zionists for a Jewish state. Then European settlers started coming and in displacing natives from their homes and villages. That's when the fighting started. 

It's not impossible for them to coexist. 

This can be ended by a state where all people have equal rights, instead of the apartheid system that is currently set up. 

The issues that prevent that: 
The right of return. Palestinians aren't given the right of return to their ancestral homelands, but Jewish people who's families haven't lived their for millenia are given that right. 

Ethnonationalism: Israel is a Jewish state. That automatically puts a certain group in a higher social status than the others 

Mutual mistrust and trauma: the decades of fighting will leave lasting scars that need to be addressed to be able to allow healing. 

I don't see a reason why these issues would prevent them from being able to live together. They're certainly much better than genocide.

mddnaa

Since the prompt is to set morality aside, the simplest way to refute this is to mention that wiping out Israel would also end the conflict. Maybe some hypothetical where Iran or Russia infiltrates their nukes and sets them off in their silos?

A more realistic option though is to get peace partners on both sides. Maybe after all of this carnage, Palestinians oust Hamas (there are already protests going on now). Then, without Hamas as a boogie man, the Israeli far right loses their appeal/seats/power. Maybe whoever replaces Netanyahu and Hamas are both so sick of the carnage that they finally make a lasting peace.

Not sure how likely that is, but I think that could happen. It would require a lot of sacrifice from both sides though.

TJaySteno1

Generally speaking, Israel is willing to make peace.  They have long term peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan.  They just recently negotiated a ceasefire with Lebanon.  

For gaza, there is one non-negotiable requirement, and one likely requirement to peace.  Fulfilling both would probably avert the complete destruction you anticipate.  

Non-negotiable:

The hostages simply have to be returned.  Israel is not going to agree to any peace treaty that leaves hostages in the hands of Hamas to star in some future snuff video.  

That’s not even just a Netanyahu thing.  Even if he is removed from power, any government that takes its place would have to get the hostages returned before ending the war. 

Note that any “peace first, then the hostages get returned” is not going to work.  The war will continue until the hostages or their bodies are recovered.  There is simply no way for it to end before then. 



Likely requirement:

Hamas probably cannot remain as the government.  Unlike the hostages, I think there is some wiggle room on this one.  But, most likely, Israel would prefer war than allow Hamas, which has promised to launch a similar massacre in the future, to stick around.  

So, can the conflict end without the destruction of gaza?   For sure!   They will have to return the hostages and probably surrender unconditionally. Gaza may choose mass death over surrender, Japan almost did that in WW2, but it doesn’t have to happen that way.

Knave7575

Is part of your belief that Hamas will never surrender and never accept a Jewish state alongside itself?

Ok_Owl_5403

That would be contrary to a now seventy year piles of evidence of how these things generally go.

A more logical and likely outcome is a partial depopulation of the area, with an exodus to nearby regions that encompasses a substantial part of the population, with the utter collapse of any organized Palestinian command, or its reorganization around the handful of people controlling what aide is given, or the ability to take it by force.

It is unlikely that Hamas in its pre-war form will be in that role, but entirely possible that different factions of it change the label or take over different parts of it.     Its also possible that a new violent extremist group emerges with a decisive edge in internal violence use, and uses its lack of track record to be considered a temporary benign influence to the Useful Idiot class of the West. 

This isn't ethnic cleansing, it isn't genocide,  it is a rinse and repeat political pogrom, that likely will be revisited over and over for the rest of our lifetimes, until the Palestinians forsake violence.

ErieHog

I'm relieved that your post isn’t cheering for Gaza’s destruction - it’s wrestling with the fear that it might be the only end left. That sense of inevitability is what I want to gently challenge.

There’s a bitter irony here. The last time a superpower ended a major war with overwhelming force was America dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It was framed as a necessary horror to stop a greater one, and it did end the war.

Fast forward to Gaza: over the past 18 months, more explosive force than both atomic bombs combined - an estimated 60+ kilotons, has been dropped on one of the most crowded civilian areas in the world.

But it hasn’t ended Hamas. It hasn’t ended the conflict. The suffering has multiplied, and peace feels more distant.

If annihilation worked, we’d already have peace.

What actually ended WWII wasn’t just devastation - it was what followed. America didn’t just flatten Japan - they rebuilt it, invested in it, and created the conditions for peace.

That’s never been done for Gaza.

If we truly want an end, maybe the answer is world leaders finding their humanity and investing in justice, not perpetual wars and the kind of peace that is supposedly going to exist when Gaza becomes  apartheid apartments by the sea, built on the rubble of an unmarked graveyard for children.

throwawayfem77

[deleted]

Okay. While I think the ending you’ve suggested is possible, I also think it’s far from likely. Here are my reasons.

1.) Israel doesn’t want to become a pariah state. There are definitely some Israeli far-right politicians who don’t care what foreign states think of Israel, but that’s not yet the majority. And while Netanyahu has snubbed the President on occasion, it’s a thin line. 

Without American and European support, Israel would be dramatically weakened. They might be the strongest state in the region now, but a few decades down the line? Who knows. Level heads in the IDF of all places probably understand the threat international isolation poses better than Ben Gvir and his imbecilic posse.

2.) It’s too much money to continue the war indefinitely. Some kind of diplomatic agreement has to be reached, because total mobilization isn’t cheap.



The most likely solution, in my view, is another partial occupation/full occupation and a truce, not with Hamas but with some kind of puppet Palestinian authority. Kicking this can down the road has become an Israeli specialty at this point.

byzantiu

Hamas could surrender.

That always been an option. That prevent it.

Surrender has always been an option for Palestinian that they refuse to take. Take the L that they lost the war (and such lost major political capital) and decide to move on with their lives rather than try to take back what they lost.

If we take the premise that Hamas would rather all of Gaza burn then surrender to Israel, then yeah you're correct. Probably war will end with Gaza destruction.

But do you accept that premise that Palestrina people prefer death to surrender.

SnooOpinions5486

What does "wipe out" entail?
98% of Palestinians are still there after 2 years of war.


So infrastructure? Political system? Economy?

biteme4711

I will continue base on the assumption that you are only pointing out that Israel wants to complete the genocide and occupy the Gaza strip and other Palestinian lands, not endorsing or supporting their action.

* Politically speaking, Israel will most likely continue their effort because there is no opposing forces, thanks to the US' constant nays at the Security Council, if it was not Israel but another country with no lobbists paying US politicians, that country would have been bombed to oblivion two years ago.
* Militarily speaking, while Houthis are still launching missiles at Israel, but TBH it's only a nuisance at this point, and it will continue to be, base on the distance and all the arab countries that are not too keen on helping Palestine.
* Economically speaking, Israel has what it takes to keep going, of course I'm refering to the US tax dollars, while Palestine has next to nothing.
* Culturally speaking, Israel now shares the reputation of the Third-Reich and Militarist Imperial Japan, so they can't go lower, so nothing is holding them back in this regard.

It's likely Israel will continue down this path, but there is hope --

1. US will come to its senses when they realize Israel is becoming too strong in that region and starts to hurt their profit. (Not the first time, look at Al-Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, Taliban, Iran, Libyan rebels, Syrian rebels, the list goes on)
2. nternational pressure, shifting regional alliances, and global public opinion can create new dynamics that force Israel and its ally to stop.
3. Palestinian people’s resilience and the broader Arab and international solidarity movements continue to exert pressure, demanding justice and a sustainable resolution.

In short, while the current trajectory appears grim, complex geopolitical realities and historical precedents suggest that total annihilation is not the only possible end. Change—though difficult—remains within the realm of possibility.

CanadianGangsta

I unfortunately think your view is not... unlikely, but we have to keep in mind that past peace breakthroughs in the region also were unfathomable before they actually occurred. Nobody thought peace between Egypt and Israel would ever be possible before the brave, extended campaign on the part of Egyptian leadership to normalize relations.

It certainly isn't guaranteed, but a unified leadership on the palestinian side, willing to embrace peace and negotiate in good faith, and with the backing of the international community could force israel into a position where they *must* negotiate peace. I have my disagreements with Israeli leadership, but historically Israel has pretty astutely responded to the political realities on the ground, whether or not those aligned with their (often distasteful) political aspirations. 

if, by some miracle, a coherent palestinian leadership emerged that was dead-set on peace, it is not unlikely that Israel would have to negotiate a peace agreement with them - just like Jordan, Egypt, and now even Saudi Arabia

I think that with proper public pressure, the US and European governments will eventually have to do less and less for Israel, until Israel is forced to make peace.

Israel’s unpopularity and waning support will eventually make it collapse.

So the only way to stop a genocide is to let the people be completely destroyed and finish the genocide? Great insight sis 🤣

rkhatri

I'll take this one step further:
The only way to achieve true peace on earth is for the human species to be wiped out entirely.

TwilightFate

If America stops giving weapons to Israel the war will end

Invinciblez_Gunner

It depends what you mean by "the annihilation of Gaza". Large swathes of the strip have been reduced to rubble at this point, and Israel is certainly in favor of large scale emigration of Gazans from the strip. I don't think they'd have the political backing to carry out forced expulsions, but you can argue that the systematic destruction of infrastructure in the strip is a tacit endorsement of ethnic cleansing (and it's not hard to find hardcore voices in Israel who proudly call for that and worse).

If what you mean by "annihilation of Gaza" is that all 2 million residents will be killed, that's nowhere near a reality. The death toll in this conflict is far below the death toll in the Russia/Ukraine war, or many other conflicts in recent history, in raw numbers. The impact on civilians is egregious, and the fact that civilians haven't been able to flee is somewhat unprecedented. When all the dust settles, and the full death toll is tabulated, I don't know if it would reach double digits in terms of percentages (ie; &gt;10%). That's just a death toll - not a casualty toll, or a psychological trauma toll.

What would it take for Israel to end the war? Bibi wants to end the war with what is seen as a decisive victory. As it stands, Israel has largely dismantled Hamas's military capabilities and commanders. They've destroyed Hezbollah, and are eyeing possible normalization of ties with Syria.  Meanwhile, there's a huge focus in Israel in dismantling Iran's nuclear program, which requires freeing up additional military resources. There's also a strong pressure internally in Israel to wrap up the war in Gaza - the economic toll is huge, the diplomatic toll has been enormous, Israelis broadly prioritize returning the hostages, and there's increasing political pressure to bring the war to an end. For example, you mentioned Trump - while it's true that America won't stop providing arms to Israel, Trump also wants to be seen as a peacemaker, and has been exerting pressure on Israel recently to bring the war to a close and declare victory.

I think you can expect that the two sides will sign an agreement somewhat soon, under the proposed "Witkoff plan". That would lead to 10 living hostages freed over the course of 60 days, and the final living hostages' release to be negotiated pending a full end to the war. Israel might make a big push to get Gazans to leave for other countries, but even if 1 million people leave (which is unlikely - nobody wants to accept Gazan refugees, especially on mass), there will still be 1 million people living in the strip.

Over the coming decade, there will be an enormous amount of money poured into reconstruction efforts. There are billions of people around the world who want to donate money to that cause, and every country in the middle east would benefit from a stable and prosperous Gaza. Obviously, that's not possible with Hamas in control, but the current deals on the table would theoretically see Hamas cede control. The political future of the conflict is uncertain, but the continued existence of Gaza is not. 

Happy to provide citations for anything you have questions about here.

MostlyAffable

So you have accepted now that a two state solution is not sustainable, and it never was, not when once side refuses to live peacefully in coexistence. I’m glad. 

You later stated ‘a one state solution with equal rights seems great but does not seem likely in the near future’ I’m not sure if this is just genuine lack of knowledge or naiveness but I’ll go with the first. There is a one state, that has offered a tremendous number of solutions, that offers equal rights for all citizens irregardless of race, religion, political views, sex or sexual orientation - This is called the state of Israel. Where 2 million Arabs live peacefully in coexistence, more so they are in the Knesset, they are all doctors or bankers or high court judges.

StartMiddle

Human brains seek simple, easily understood solutions to complex problems. Real life is hardly ever so simple. 

Israel has already pretty much destroyed most of Gaza so you're correct there. But I think the idea that Gazans will be relocated or killed is not realistic. On relocation - there is nowhere for them to go. Egypt will not have them in Sinai. Its not practical in any way. And on extermination... also not really realistic.

Despite the brutality of this war only a small fraction of Gazans are dead. There is a very very large gap I between war with heavy civilian casualties and systemic extermination. Gazans are still having babies. The current pace of the war, devastating as it is, can continue for a very very long time without resulting in extermination. 

The fact is that there is really no gain for Israel in extermination. That would only radicalize Palestinians in Israel and the West Bank and move the conflict elsewhere. Israel knows that there is no realistic solution in which they do not still have to deal with a substantial Palestinian population in territories they control. 

Extermination doesn't suit their interests. Domination does. There will be a harsh occupation and strict apartheid-style laws for the foreseeable future. They believe they cannot live peacefully with Palestinians and cannot exterminate then either, so they aim to control them as closely as possible.

Prince_Marf

With all due respect, your comments reflect deep ignorance about the social structure of the Palestinian territories. Further, your comments suggest a significant disconnect between your media diet and current events in Gaza. 

In the Palestinian territories, a small number of clans (essentially extended families, but the concept not completely analogous) hold tremendous social and political power. In the past few weeks, three different clans in Gaza have denounced Hamas and begun working with Israel in opposition to Hamas. This is a significant turning point in the war.

If the clans are able (with the help if Israel) overthrow Hamas, they will replace Hamas as the governing body of Gaza.

Was that the solution for slavery of black people in America or South Africa?

Seems like equal rights tend to be the most likely if we go by history.

Unless you think jews are some special kind of evil

Giardian_of_Israel

If it's okay to be this existential then lets get rid of Israel by stopping all its funding. The West has thrown so much money into making this barbaric and unnatural project work but all it would take to make it fall is let go and let gravity do its work. 

DustyFalmouth

Total genocide of Gaza won't end the war. Once Gaza is empty the West Bank will be next. They're already running operations there and the leadership of the West Bank *has* recognized Israels right to exist.

After they empty the West Bank they move on the Jordan and Sinai. Remember, the Israeli right believes Israel should stretch from the Nile to the Euphrates.

So sure, you can take the morality questions out of it. But your question in inherently flawed because whether you empty out Gaza or not it still won't end the conflict.

Acceptable-Fig2884

Not to be a doomer but it’s entirely possible with the recent evacuation of US military families and Israeli/American intel talking about a strike on Iran, that this could escalate into a regional if not global conflict. If Iran decides to bomb US military bases or Saudi oil fields and tank the oil market it would almost certainly mean US intervention. Considering Iran is allied with China/Russia it’s very possible they would supply weapons and even military support to protect their interests with Iran

Confident-Football-2

I am looking at it in the following way:

  
1. Israel can't murder 2M people in Gaza, it would make them pariahs for the rest of their existence, which wouldn't be long when arabs finally attack it and Western countries turn a blind eye.

2. Israel can't occupy Gaza forever, it's just too expensive for a 10M nation to occupy 2M Gazans.

3. Israel can either withdraw - and return to pre-October 7 status, which doesn't make a lot of sense to do.

4. Or push all Palestinians from Gaza - the best scenario for Israel. But if Palestinians won't leave, then we come back to point #1 (Israel can't kill all of them), then point #2, and finally to point #3 (Israel must withdraw because it can't afford)

So, if Palestinians don't move away and suffer for some time, Israel will withdraw.

ScrupulousArmadillo

Hamas could always just release the hostages and surrender.

Frankly, the most likely scenario is as follows:

1. UN and international diplomatic pressure force Israel to agree to the Hamas terms: Israel to pull out and Hamas pinky-promises to release the hostages afterward.
2. Israel pulls out.  Hamas releases some but not all of the hostages.  Hamas comes up with some lame excuse like "the hostages converted to Islam" or "we can't find them."
3. Israel complains about its hostages and Hamas' failure to abide by the deal.  Nobody listens or cares.

3a. Hamas shoots off a few dozen rockets into Israel in celebration and to show it is not under control and as a symbol the fight goes on.  Israel is pressured not to retaliate.  It might, it might not, either way is purely symbolic.

4.  International aid pours in to rebuild Gaza.  Iran, Qatar, the Muslim Brotherhood, and other groups continue to send military supplies to Hamas.

5.  5-7 years from now, Hamas breaks the ceasefire and attempts "Al Aqsa Flood 2." Once again, Muslims and Leftists around the world gather to celebrate the beginning of war and the gruesome murders.

6.  Israel invades Gaza again, reminding the world that its hostages have been in captivity for over a decade, now.  Once again, Gazan civilians refuse to evacuate and the "Pro-Palestine" countries refuse to accept any refugees anyway.

7. No matter how Israel responds or to what extent, the UN and international left will restart the histrionics and label its actions "genocidal."  Pressure mounts on Israel to accept another "ceasefire" which will almost certainly be broken within a few years.

8.  Rinse, Repeat, Ad Infinitum.

XhazakXhazak

I think Israel will take all of Gaza and people will be shipped elsewhere eventually. 

But the US will not support Israel for much longer (less than 20 years?) as more and more young people are trained in thinking that all physical conflict is unjustifiable. 

The young and even most millennials today don’t believe in peace through strength

Moonwrath8

Wiped out? Logistically and optically too expensive.  Rather - likely reduced to about 20% of the land in tightly controlled enclaves with a barely functional economy that causes a majority of the population to eventually leave.  And that 20% will be heavily monitored and checkpointed, like West Bank. The 80% of land left over will be military reserve for Israel with anti-tunnel measures, and land given to settlers.  

No-Dinner-5894

There is always the possibility of a collapse of the Israeli government; if the ruling coalition somehow breaks apart, there's a chance that their replacement will seek to end the war in the interest of making a clean break. Particularly, the ultra-orthodox parties have been increasingly vocal members of the coalition, with their protests against the possibility of ultra-orthodox men being drafted into the IDF. 

But that would only really be a stopgap measure. The current state of affairs, even if the fighting stopped tomorrow, is unsustainable. Barring an actual miracle or the complete collapse of Israel as a state, Israel will eventually absorb Gaza and the West Bank; the only real question is whether there will be anyone left when they do.

Doc_Mercury

The likely end to the conflict is that Israel trades Gaza for Iran. Israel bombs Iranian nuclear reactors, but ends the war in Gaza. 

Israel will accept this because they view Iran as the bigger threat and ultimate funder of Hamas. They'll get to Hamas eventually. 

Hamas will accept it, because they need the war to end so they can stabilize their control on Gaza and regroup. 

America will accept it, because it ends the Gaza war while removing the threat of a nuclear Iran. 

(The Iranian people will accept it if it means the overthrow of the Mullahs, well see if that happens.)

The only real losers are Palestinians, who are still under Hamas dictatorship.

Technical-King-1412

Maybe the destruction of Israel would be more likely

ArcangelLuis121319

Gaza will be occupied, and large parts of it will be destroyed but not necessarily wiped out. If Genocide was the intent, the civilian death toll is too low, considering how destructive modern weapons are. The most likely answer is that Gaza will be occupied indefinitely while Israel or another Arab country administers the region and rebuilds civilian infrastructure and economy.

Under current conditions, a two-state solution is impossible. It will only ever become possible when extremist ideology is wiped out.

1ncest_is_wincest

Jews were once expelled from the same location, and this has not ended the conflict in the region. Diaspora groups always carry the memories and stories of their land of origin and will feel a pull towards it. They will export their conflicts and act them out in immigrant neighbourhoods. As for the Israelis, the oppressed have become the oppressor. History repeats itself. The Middle East will be forever cursed with this conflict. 

The only solution is mass conversion to Van Halen.

Popular_Ad_4934

I agree with everything except one thing. They will not massacre the palestinians to a man. Right now 1% of the civilian population has been killed. We are a long way off from killing off the palestinians in Gaza. If Egypt doesnt open its border i dont see them going anywhere else. In that case they will probably be hoarder into southern Gaza and kept there. They said before that Gaza is an open air prison, but i think we havent seen anything yet....

FitDeal325

I agree. I don’t see this ending any other way, especially given the people in power.

I will take it a step further and say my tin foil hat take. I think Israel knew about the Oct. 7 Hamas attack and chose to ignore it. They knew it was a prime opportunity to take over Gaza once and for all. The military over there is far too advanced for them to of not known about Hamas falling out of the sky.

Zestypalmtree

I think it's fairly obvious that this war will be over once Hamas has been removed from power. If Hamas continues to refuse to return the hostages and surrender unconditionally, then the destruction will continue.  But I don't see anything that justifies the contention that Gaza will be wiped out "entirely."

Other peoples have weathered wars. The Palestinians will, too.

flossdaily

Actually the only way for the conflict to end is to

A) arrest Netanyahu and his administration for war crimes
B) remove every settler and put them on trial for war crimes.
C) implement 2 state solution


What you're describing is literally just genocide.

BatmanxX420X

The Prodestant vs Catholic conflicts in Ireland. Violence happened between the two groups for hundreds of years and the last conflict lasted 30 years. Some people back then had the opinion that the conflicts would never end but peace has lasted there today. You can never know what will happen in the future. It may not happen right now, but things do change.

Godlesspants

I, unfortunately, agree with your prediction. I think Israel will not stop, and while sympathetic western nations might highly encourage a two state solution and peace, they won't bring any real force of consequence to bear to make it happen, and the Palestinian people will be slowly pushed further and further out until they are effectively completely exiled from their own homeland.

That is a big part of why, and every time I say this I get a shit load of people clutching their pearls and being dead set on deliberately misunderstanding me, but that is why I understand and sympathize with Hamas.

Like I always have to do when I say that, I must make it clear that I completely reject and have the utmost disdain for the practices of fundamentalist Islam from basically every social and human rights angle. I also have the utmost disdain for terroristic violence.

However, I know that I hold those disdains from a position of extreme privilege. That is to say, my people aren't facing extinction and banishment. My people aren't having their homes and land stolen.

If my people were facing that, and had been for now multiple generations, then that alternate reality version of myself might very well be an extremist. That alternate reality version of myself might very well have clung to apocalyptic religion and martyr fetish radicalized sects. That alternate reality version of myself might well have come to harbor a bristling hatred of the entire rest of the world.

I don't want that to be the case, but it's true. I will admit openly that if I rushed home, seeing a pillar of smoke coming from where my house used to be, and dug through the rubble of my home to find my daughter or wife or son or parents blasted into meat and effluence that I could barely tell used to be them, or even worse yet found them still alive with their skin sloughing off and what's left of their jaw flopping open as they try to call for help.....if that happened to me, It would radicalize me. I'm telling you, boom, snap, that's it. I would be an extremist from that day forward. Nothing else in life would matter. I would cease being me on that day, and what's left of me would be nothing but hate and desire for revenge then my own death.

And I think the same would be true for most of us.

Jimithyashford

Because countries don't want to take refugees from Gaza and birth rates are high (population doubled itself in the last 2 decades). You will end up with milion of people living in tents for the rest of their life, gaza in ruins and it doesn't look like someone going to build that city soon

Special-Resource-375

Is there no way to collapse Hamas without eliminating all of Gaza? Regimes have been deposed before historically without eliminating everyone under the rule of that regime.

Israel could negotiate with the Palestinian Authority such that the Palestinian Authority would agree to take over Gaza and return the hostages while maintaining Gaza as separate from Israel proper. From there Israel could structure their offensive into Gaza strategically around building the Palestinian Authority against Hamas (create safety zones for civilians ran by the PA, build PA infrastructure, etc.).

As far as I’m aware Israel hasn’t tried anything along this route. It seems less a matter of likelihood but more that Israel doesn’t want to make the concessions in the West Bank that such negotiations will necessitate and doesn’t want to invest the time and resources into building a new regime in Gaza.

Typically deposing a regime means propping up another to take its place and not eliminating the people under that regime entirely. I don’t see why that can’t be done in Gaza outside of Israel not wanting to.

RealJohnBobJoe

A corner stone of this conflict is Israel's power to act with impunity due to unconditional support from the US administration. Therefore Israel is not motivated to really seek peace.

So an alternative and realistic option is the U.S. withdrawing all support for Israel. Now, this might seem unrealistic—but I think, over time, it’s actually quite realistic. Here's why:

Firstly, why do many US politicians support Israel? Well, the answer is—they actually don’t. They support their own careers by staying on the good side of AIPAC. The American public, in general, is not nearly as pro-Israel as the government traditionally is. An enormous amount of support for Israel comes from AIPAC and Christian Zionists (not the US public in general)

So Israel, although powerful, rests on a precarious foundation. With some strategic political action, Israel’s hijacking of the U.S. government could be reversed. Focus on the undue influence of AIPAC and expose the irrational foundation of Christian Zionism—whose support for Israel is not based on justice or anything that makes sense. It is based on the apocalyptic belief that God is at war with the forces of darkness, and Israel is His chosen one in this war. So hy should the American public support this nonsense financially and send their soldiers to die for this cause?

Once U.S. support (or servitude) is withdrawn from Israel, this will force Israel to actually negotiate with surrounding nations. It will no longer have the power to target their children. It will no longer have the power to steal more land in the West Bank. It will no longer have the power to behave with impunity. It will be forced to compromise and will no longer be able to provoke without consequence. Basically, Israel will be forced to accept terms that actually consider the other side.

After decades of heavy funding from the U.S. government, Israel will still retain a lot of power—but it will now need to use it wisely and will be forced to seek peace in a genuine way.

*And to help the OP get their idea across: they are not saying anyone SHOULD wipe out Gaza - even if it was the only way to end the conflict.*

LostSignal1914

I agree that this is the most likely, UNLESS the international community steps up. Unfortunately it seems like they wont.

SorryImDunk

No, there is a better way.

The war on Hamas is one against the Hamas government and military.  The non-combatants (civilians) are not the issue.  Gaza just needs government that works to lead the people to a future that is not focused on the destruction of Israel, rather focused on building a sustainable economy and country for the Gaza people.

The war will remove all traces of Hamas, this is step 1.

An Israeli security force will keep peace after the war and maintain security, step 2.

Israel has no interest in leading the people of Gaza, they are all done with them.  Israel would be best served by brining in a multinational group from the countries in the Abram’s Achord to lead as the government of Gaza and de-radicalize the remaining people, rebuild the country, and focus on building an economy so the people can have a better life.

Things got off track because Hamas got into power and committed to war.  New leadership can commit to peace and globalization to bring in economic support from around the world to build an entirely new path for Gaza.

This is what happened in Germany and Japan after WW2, and both countries are amazing now.  It can happen in the Middle East as well.  Particularly if the Iranian government is defeated and is replaced by a government that will stop pumping aid into terror groups around Israel. This process has stated already as well.

Please be hopeful, other areas in the world have been consumed by hate in the past and were able to move forward to become better places.  It can happen in Gaza as too.

Co-flyer

I see this dragging on for a very, very long time. Israel remains resolute in executing a slow-motion genocide, and it’s doing so with unconditional U.S. backing. No significant policy shift seems likely in the foreseeable future, even under a non-Trump administration.

While resistance movements often collapse into resignation or adaptation, I don’t see that happening in Gaza. This monstrosity - it’s a genocide - plays directly into jihadist narratives.

On one side, many Palestinians are raised with an all-or-nothing view: “It’s our land, all of it”. The doctrine of Islam also is not especially yielding or forgiving; although this conflict can’t be framed as purely religious, it does make compromise less likely. On the other side, Israelis are taught that their “biblical birthright”, collective trauma, and existential fear justify exclusive claim to the same land.

Even if we imagine a future in which a new generation of Palestinians genuinely tries to integrate (a hopeful but unlikely scenario), the Israeli vision remains fundamentally ethnocratic. The goal is not peaceful coexistence, but the realization of Greater Israel, with Jews as the primary citizens and Palestinians as permanent outsiders.

You can’t expect recovery or de-radicalization under conditions of daily humiliation: your house taken, your rights denied, your people dehumanized. It really look like Israel and Palestine are locked in a never ending conflict fuelled by their respective collective trauma and fragmented identity.

lovely-complex

Late comment, but you are correct to be concerned. What people don't understand is that Israel technically did not displace anyone. They were afforded their state (a very small country) in 1947 by the UN to provide refuge of Jews from the still anti-semitic post-WW2 Europe. The Palestinians have been kicked out at least 4 times, dating back over 100 years. Egypt and Jordan gave Israel more land, including the Gaza Strip and Western Bank, under the auspices of the UN. And England (what was England doing there?)

The Palestinians need their homeland returned, safe and sound. But Israel is not the only bad guy here, they actually were given their land. And the Israelis and Palestinians got along great for a couple decades before Netanyahu and Hamas took over. I know because we took care of Palestinian people in our Israeli hospitals.

The October slaughter of innocent Israelis told me that Hamas is not to be trusted, they knew of the consequences that they're now complaining about. I say, feed the Palestinians, and get rid of Hamas!! They care nothing about their own people (obviously), they are terrorists that hide behind the innocents. And Netanyahu can take a quick exit, too. 

But notice how Germany (the country whose history started this whole mess), Egypt, and Jordan are hiding their heads, as well as the other countries involved in the UN, expecting the US to solve everything they caused. Cowards!

maxmurray1957

I can’t convince you otherwise. The Jewish government’s goal is to annihilate the Arab people living in the area. The ones who don’t die through bombardment are starved and left without medical supplies. They will bomb everything until conditions become unlivable. No one can live in rubble alone. Some rubble can be cleaned up but if it gets too much, there are no supplies coming in to rebuild and enough people are killed or injured, the remaining will die consequently without any Jewish intervention necessary. Yes, of course the US will send them more money and weapons they can ever use “to defend themselves” Why do you think Israel has other goals? 

Imagine someone would come to the US would take your house and lawn and would put you, your kids, your parents and neighbors in an internment camp. Would you be upset and think that this was unfair? That is what Jewish settlements are. Jewish SETTLEMENTS violate the Geneva convention. This means they violate human rights. I am surprised that everyone expects the people who live there give up their livelihood, all their possessions, their kids’ future, and their work and move to a camp in a tent without a fight. It would just be appropriate to call it what it is, a genocide. The annihilation of a people with the help of the US. If the US wouldn’t support it, it would not be possible.

Vegetable_Profile315

Whether or not it's justified, and whether or not it's a genocide, at the current rate it'd take decades to kill everyone in Gaza. The rate could change, but I don't see this happening at the moment, and we can discuss _that_ when it appears to be going that way.


What I think _will_ happen, is that eventually everyone will get tired of this crap and go home. Hamas will stay in power, Israel will keep the siege up, Gaza will still be a shitty place to live, but the Gazan population will not be wiped out. And this situation can keep going for so long that Netanyahu will die of old age, and the whole political map would reshuffle. 

megalogwiff

There is no way to “eliminate” Gaza - it lives on in the hearts of every Gazan forced to flee their homeland, and they will always have the right to return there.

colaptesauratus

The Gulf Arab / Egyptian peace plan is that after the war is over, a new government will come in and take control of Gaza. Possibly the Palestinian Authority - the prior PA ruler of Gaza, Mohammad Deif, is on the staff of the ruler of the UAE. The plan calls for Gaza to be rebuilt using Gulf Arab money and secured with Egyptian soldiers (Egypt shares a border with Gaza). The plan calls for several industrial zones and ports to be built in Gaza, so that people there can have jobs and choose industry over terror.

The plan doesn’t call for Hamas to be disarmed, which is mandatory for Israel after Oct 7. And who knows if any of that would happen or work - maybe the Gazans will use the new ports to smuggle weapons and do another Oct 7 attack, as Hamas previously said they would.

But it’s an ambitious idea that offers a real alternative to endless grinding conflict. People in Gaza have been indoctrinated by decades of Hamas propaganda, but a new government with intl support that improves people’s lives could bring real change. If they can give up on the idea of destroying their neighbor, they have a real chance of building something meaningful.

LateralEntry

The basic problem is there is no logical or plausible plan for after the war. Even in an ideal situation where you vanquish Hamas and get the hostages back. What do you do? Any form of solution where the Palestinians get autonomy at this point feels dangerous and insecure. The PA, led by wannabe Nazi Abbas, is a cesspool of corruption. Given what we see on the streets, the people in the WB and Gaza are delusional and not someone you can broker a deal with. We're kind of fucked no matter what.

ChinCoin

Mahmoud Abbas is 89.  There is going to be a succession crisis in the West Bank within the next decade.
If Hamas retains Gaza, it will surely win elections in the West Bank.  October 7 will become taught in schools as a feather in the cap for the history of the Palestinian Nationalist Movement.  The clock is ticking until the next war.

I fear that we will in fact at some point agree to the ceasefire. It's our government's philosophy, kick the can down the road. We did it for decades with Hamas and now we We did it with Iran.

Ace2Face

Hamas is very weak atm. There are factions within Gaza rebelling against them. Despite what western msm says this war can be won. I hope we can see it to the end because it would save so many lives in the long run.

Independent_Hope3352

All governments are terrible. And the alternatives are often worse.

Moewwasabitslew

Remember when this exact same argument was used a month after October 7th to explain why Bibi can't possibly resign, even though or course some blame for the situation is on him? That of course he should resign, but only later, when the war ends? 


Then 6 months in. 


Then a year in. 


Now two years in. 


And the argument is still the same. How would things be any different.


Well, for starters, we would have brought the hostages back a year ago. But what's a year for a hostage in Gaza. I mean ,"They may be suffering, but they aren't dying", to quote a famous politician. 

alliwantisauser

The problem is that this government has no post-war strategy, and it's a feature rather than a bug. Smotrich and Ben-Gvir want to build new settlements there. These retards have been holding up any replacement, whether it be the PA or something else. If the idea of installing Yasser Abu Shabaab or clans works out, fine, but there's every chance of Hamas just coming back and regaining power. Plus Trump is clearly getting impatient with this.

Kahing

Congrats you believe exactly with Netanyahu wants you to.

2ndChanceCharlie

The current government strategy after almost 2 years appears to be:

1) Continue war
2) Get the US to help move Palestinians to other Muslim countries 
3) Any Gazans who choose not to leave get pushed into some enclosed area in Rafah they can’t leave and Israeli taxpayers will foot the bill for
4) Play whack a mole with hamas indefinitely while soldiers continue to die
5) ???

They still have no plan for who will govern after hamas is “beaten.” The entire war plan is based on political interests at this point.

CatfishBlues

I disagree with regarding the chances of a deal under an interim government.  
Netanyahu knows that returning the hostages for a reasonable deal is popular, even among his own voters. So far he couldn't do it because Smotrich and Ben Gvir want to kill or deport all Gazans and resettle Gaza. If they are locked in an interim government he won't care about them any longer, they can't bring his government down. Instead he'll do what is electorally popular and bring the hostages home. Just like he did in the Shalit deal.

valleyofdawn

You can't "finish the job". This is the greatest lie about the war. Hamas is an insurgency,which is near impossible to take out in armed combat (the Tamili tigers were the exception to the rule,just look at all the failed COINs). An average counter-insurgency operation is 5 years and Hamas is probably an outlier for almost all prolonging conditions. People are using sunken cost fallacy to argue for prolonging the war, which is not going to be won.

The fantasy that the last Hamas militant signing a surrender agreement is dangerous. This is never going to happen.

The more realistic scenario is that of patrols getting hit with IEDs,AT and sniper fire for better part of a decade,till Hamas have spun-off to a different name and the public can pretend that Hamas is gone.

In Lebanon, Israel seemed fine with not "finishing the job" with a much more well armed and less hurt Hizballah. Why? Because they didn't make promises to the public that cannot be fulfilled. There was an exit strategy (even if it was forced by the US) that pose much more threat to Hizballah than any amount of kinetic force could.

In Gaza, the issue is simple,this government,out of purely political motives,is refusing to any valid exit strategy that could actually marginalize Hamas to non-existance.

People here don't want Hamas to win a pyrrhic victory because of pride. So much so that they are willing to commit to a pyrrhic victory ourselves,just to say we won.

(BTW,finishing the war and getting somw deal with KSA would be a loss for Hamas,but this won't happen because this means the war ends and that would hurt our pride)

mr_blue596

the evaluation, looks like this:  
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qo-hOT9mss](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qo-hOT9mss)   
IDSF video.

Ok-Toe-1673

A ceasefire would be a death wish for Israel, the war should continue until hamas hold no power in Gaza, keep hitting them hard and eventually they will be completely done

Technical_Role6710

&gt; Ending the war in Gaza and breaking up the government is bad, but... Simply because the alternatives are worse.

I've heard this a couple of times already, let's analyze. 



&gt; If the government falls: We get interim government and elections. This will not get hostages back sooner, help win the war, or cause Haredim to be conscripted.

Strawman fallacy – oversimplifies reasons people want government change. Also fails to give reasons why. Invalid argument



&gt; It will also not make the politicians you happen to dislike disappear.


Ad hominem implication – dismisses opposing views as emotional. Invalid argument



&gt; The knee-jerk reaction of "things are bad, let's just change something..." will almost certainly lead to a situation... worse.


Slippery slope with no evidence. Invalid argument



&gt; If a ceasefire is declared: Trump will likely not allow the war to resume...  Trump is now focused on Saudi investments and a Nobel prize. 


Speculation – assumes future Trump behavior as fact. Invalid argument



&gt; Trump does not really care about Israeli hostages...


Ad hominem + speculation. Invalid argument



&gt; If the war cannot be resumed after a ceasefire, then the ceasefire is the end of the war.


That's probably the case. 



&gt; If Hamas stays in power... they achieved their goal and won. Society fetishizing male-honor... counts as a victory.


False equivalence – survival ≠ strategic victory. They can believe in whatever they want. Invalid argument



&gt; The huge sacrifices already made were largely in vain.


Sunk cost fallacy. Invalid argument



&gt; Hamas is cooking in a pressure pot... may be only weeks or months away from collapse. This war is like amputating a gangrened limb... 


Speculative claim without evidence. Invalid argument


&gt; Some parts of our current government are extremely distasteful to me...


Glad we agree :D


&gt; I just don't see how an interim or new government changes things. It will not bring home more hostages, or conscript Haredim... 


Argument from ignorance – personal doubt is not proof. A change in leadership is more than likely to have a change in actions, if not no company would ever replace CEOs. Invalid argument



&gt; We will probably see rise in extremists and Haredi parties.


Speculative slippery slope. Invalid argument



&gt; Ending the war prematurely means... we have to do it all over again.


False dilemma – ignores other options besides full military solution. In addition, it's doubtful that continuing the war as we are doing would eventually lead to the full collapse of Hamas, as they have bases in Turkey and Qatar. Invalid argument



&gt; Strange and wasteful that we ended short-term misery but worsened long-term.


Appeal to fear and hindsight bias. Invalid argument



&gt; Gazan population... cannot hope not to be used as human shields while Hamas is in power.


Sad, but true. But it is not a valid argument.

Cocky-Bastard

After reading this post, I encourage you all to look up the term "learned helplessness". I think most of us feel that way to some degree since October 7th, and maybe even before that. Is sticking to the familiar really the best answer?

Pesha616

If things haven’t improved with 20 years of Bn i seldomly have hope they will now. He just wants to avoid internal prosecution by continuously mobilizing the military.

Fine_Let8856

Sure let’s just cancel the elections until the war is over /s

Tmuxmuxmux

I’m trying to view this through the lens of Hamas. While I think Israel killing innocent Palestinians is a PR win for Hamas, will Hamas actually ever be in power anywhere in the world again? To me it seems like they had a plan that accomplished something, but at the end of the day really didn’t gain anything else they would’ve hoped to achieve. Is the rest of the Middle East rallying around Hamas at this point? It doesn’t seem like it to me.

jason_sation

The writer is Israel’s former prime minister, defence minister and IDF chief of staff. Since not everyone has access to FT News, I start by copying and pasting the article:

Almost 20 months after the massacre of October 7 2023, Israel faces a fateful choice: reach a deal to bring all hostages home and end the war — or launch a full-scale assault on Gaza in pursuit of the mirage of “total victory” over Hamas.

But the government also faces another, deeper choice: align with far-right ministers like Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, who are pushing for Gaza’s reoccupation and resettlement, or turn towards the international community, US President Donald Trump’s vision of regional peace and international law.

Recently, Trump reportedly warned Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu: “We will abandon you if you do not end this war”. France, Britain and Canada have already demanded that Israel renew humanitarian aid or face consequences and the UK has announced it will suspend talks on a bilateral trade deal. The pressure is real — and mounting.

A deal would unquestionably benefit Israel. It would mean the return of the remaining hostages, an end to the fighting and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, and the beginning of reconstruction — offering Israel the chance to integrate into a new regional architecture, potentially including normalisation with Saudi Arabia and participation in the India-Middle East-Europe economic corridor. 

For Netanyahu, however, this path is perilous. It threatens his far-right coalition, opens the door to renewed calls for a commission of inquiry into October 7 and could accelerate his long-stalled corruption trial. More than 70 per cent of Israelis hold him responsible for the October failure, and more than half think he acts based on personal — not national — interests. A deal could mark the end of his long tenure.

War, on the other hand, shields him politically. But strategically, it’s disastrous. Israel has already destroyed most Hamas targets and infrastructure. I believe that another round of fighting will bring more destruction but will end at the same point. “Full elimination” of Hamas, a group embedded and hiding among more than 2mn civilians, is not a practical military mission. Indeed, a renewed offensive in Gaza offers no strategic gain — and renewed fighting will condemn even more hostages to death. That alone should end the discussion.

Many Israelis see Netanyahu’s reinvasion of Gaza for what it is: a political war to protect his fragile coalition masquerading as a security imperative. And when it inevitably ends — under global pressure, humanitarian collapse or domestic upheaval — Israel will find itself back where it began, needing to replace Hamas with a legitimate alternative. So why sacrifice hostages, soldiers and more innocent Gazans to get there?

Affectionate_Cat293

What's really frustrating to me is you hear the foreign policy intelligentsia/EU officials etc wax poetic about how the people of Gaza need self determination without Hamas. There's also a proposal for PA to govern the strip. In theory this all sounds fantastic to me, but there is absolutely no way in hell we achieve this other than through military defeat. Hamas is not going to negotiate itself out of existence. The idea is absolutely nuts.

Framboise33

I am pro Israel. I also believe Israel is going down the Russia route where this war has 0 strategy at this point and involves more brute force than anything else. Eliminate Hamas with some sense of targeted attacks or back off. This constant “collateral damage of innocent lives” should have stopped a while back.

obelix_dogmatix

Hamas will never release all remaining hostages.  That’s the only leverage they have.  Pretending they would is a folly.  Asking Israel to stop is asking them to let Hamas rearm for another attack.  Hamas will never make peace.

FosterFl1910

The “strategic disaster” was not going harder against Gaza in the first month of the war so it would be over faster.

NYSenseOfHumor

I just hope Israel follows through and ends this war for good.

horatiobanz

Yeah Israel needs to read the room and realize this can’t continue. I’m generally pro Israel but even I think they’ve gone too far. Going after Hamas made sense, anyone saying they were wrong for that after October seventh is a fool, but this has gone on too long. There no longer seems to be any real goal other than destroying Gaza and keeping bibi in power. They’ve ruined most of their good will and are pushing allies away faster than trump…which is really saying something.

ImperialxWarlord

Israel has done unimaginable damage to their reputation by continuing their invasion of Gaza. 

European conservatives and populists who have traditionally supported Israel have turned on it. Piers Morgan was once Israel's greatest champion in the British press ... he now says they are committing genocide and has aligned with Medhi Hassan. 

The United States public has roundly turned against Israel. For the first time ever, Pew polling last month found a majority of Americans and majority of Republicans under 50 have a negative view of Israel, while a whopping 70% Democrats now have a negative opinion of Israel.

The United States has already shifted protocol by unilaterally negotiating with Hamas (to free Edan Alexander) and with the Houthis without Israeli involvement.

It's only a matter of time before the United States unilaterally recognizes a Palestinian state. If Trump doesn't do it, the next Democratic president will. And that's why Trump will likely do it.

The America rehabilitation and recognition of al-Sharaa in Syria also needs to be a wake up call for Israel. Hamas controlling Palestinian territory is no longer an obstacle to recognition of a Palestinian state. If they can forgive al-Qaeda members and recognize them as statesmen ... they can forgive Hamas.

kare_pai

America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists, and we shouldn’t demand our allies do so.

Israel should not accept any deal that does not involve the unconditional surrender of Hamas. Do not reward evil by making deals with them that allow them to perpetuate themselves.

Edit: okay to apparently America negotiates with terrorists. Guess I was wrong about that.

But that doesn’t change my position: nobody should. And if Hamas wants to use innocent people as human shields, that’s on them. It’s not our problem if they do that, and then those human shields die when we go after terrorists.

notthesupremecourt

Hamas will live on forever why because they are true freedom fighters NO MAYHER WHAT U SAY THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING. Falastine will be free one day I promise you that remember my words

Fluffy-Impress-3482

Lots of pro-Israel or pro-Palestine answers here.

The real answer is found in the fact that there has always been conflict in the lands around Jerusalem. For some 3000 years. The Israel vs Palestine conflict is just the latest iteration.

DLDrillNB

Its unpredictable at this time. Israel's objective is extermination of the Gazan population. But at the same time it has dependence on international relationships, and those are collapsing due to the genocide. The US is key here, the US could end this. But the current US administration changes position every five seconds and the former actively supported genocide. 

The ending that would lead to the most sustainable peace and security in the region (an international coalition coming together to defeat Israel militarily, disband its military, remove its government and place it under the governance of a purpose created international body) is extremely unlikely.

I consider it most likely that Israel will eventually be forced by increasing pressure to step from its extermination campaign, but will maintain a campaign of fluctuating levels of aggression and tightly control the passage of aid so that the population are kept just above the current starvation level.

AlternativeMirror207

israel will never get what it wants and they will not win the war , if u see this a year later lmk if i’m wrong 

HealthConsistent1916

Let’s get the facts straight it’s no war it’s genocide !!! And what and how can we jsut stop this nonsense !!!  

BoysenberryPast4767

You want the end game? Look at Netanyahu's final solution. It's not that deep. The goal is concentrating the population into one zone and then expelling them systematically.

The PM just stated that 'we're letting in aid into Gaza because the west can't handle photo evidence of famine' and you're wondering what the goal is here. Please just read about what the Israeli's say their plan is. They don't hide it anymore. Cuz they haven't had to.

Sure_Ad_8480

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